http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...ssPageName=WDVW

They are selling these online at different sites.

I wanna know the real story. Does anyone know what's really going on here?

JZ says the Mouse came from its house. Blue says not.

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Update 3/22/2005:

The official story from Blue as posted at 3d Audio, Inc., is that this is a disgruntled parts supplier who got his contract pulled. Jurin Zarins says that he designed and supplied certain models of Blue mics.

Here's the link at 3D Audio...

http://www.3daudioinc.com/cgi-bin/ultimate...ic&f=1&t=001266

I don't know the story, but I'm exceedingly interested myself. I went on the violet-design page (Which seems to be the same company as JZ) and they were very cryptic with some answers that were posed to them in this vein on their message board.

There's a guy from JZ with a weird clown avatar making the rounds at Gearslutz and the lab, in the threads but not really talking. The claim appears to be that JZ designed and manufactured the mics, and there's a completely left-field rumor that Blue's stuff is being outsourced to China. I don't believe any of it. Why not? Because I read it on the internet.

(Warren, any word coming down to dealers from BLUE?)

Bear

[Wisdom of the day - computer keyboards don't like a nice drink of Scotch.]

Is it just me or does it say "JL" on the mic?

I don't know where they came from or what their deal is, but I have a moral issue with any company that can't spell their own initials.

It's a Z. The cross w/ the J is the top, and there's the crossy thing in the middle. The loops are weird, though - they do make it look like a script capital L.

What bugs me more now that I look at it is that it looks like a Mouse with bad gas.

Bear

I am so curious about this. It's consuming my thoughts.

(I wish I were being sarcastic.)

I'm not so curious about these JZ mics for a purchase as the pricing pretty much sucks when you think about what their pricing means in real world terms.

The Blue Mouse goes for $1,299 in the USA at a store not to far from my house. I can probably go there and negotiate for a better price (or maybe not but it's always good to ask) but that $1,299 is probably the minimum advertised price allowed by Blue.

The JZ Recording JZ2 is $1,175 shipped from Latvia. In essence, I'm buying direct from Latvia but I got to worry about import fees and other associated headaches. There are no savings being passed along to me due to this direct transaction. In essence, it's more costly than the one at my local store for the same item (assuming it really is the same item).

Some note that the JZ mics use more primo capsules than similarly priced Blue but I don't know how they come to the conclusion.

When I first saw the site, I was hoping to pick up a Kiwi for $500, a Mouse for $350 and a couple of Dragonflys at $250 each. No such luck, I guess.

Yeah, it's like a version of the TapeOp Forum Chinese ribbon mic group buy that starts out blah, instead of just ending up that way.

(I'm surprised I haven't seen any US companies doing the Chinese BLUE rip-off that Thomann rebadges as a T-Bone in Europe - they certainly have a cool look.)

Bear

I have talked to the head Violet guy who also is the administrator for their messageboard. JZ is the designer of all of the Blue mics, except for the bird and ball mics, which are Chinese. Blue lost their manufacturing contract for whatever reason. They have been looking to China for making the rest of the line. The deal is, they cannot use the same designs that they were using. The mics that they build will have to be different enough, or the Violet/JZ boys can go after them. It was a case of Blue just being a Gotham. They did not actually hands-on design the mics. They just packaged and imported existing product.

I have yet to hear what the diff will be between the Violet and the JZ lines. I wouldn't wxpect prices to drop severely, because these boys know how much jack Blue was bringing in. I imagine that they are just doubling or tripling their revenues by selling direct at Blue's prices.

This could be wrong. The Blue guys are looking pretty stupid. In recent interviews they have skirted the issue. In older interviews, Skipper couldn't even talk mic shop. That's not a bad thing. But that tipped some people off that maybe these guys were not doing designs themselves.

This is what I have been told.

I know this is just what you were told, but I don't believe this for a second. They very well may have bought the designs from Violet or whatever, but there's no way they would let their entire product line simply slip through their fingers. And if they truly had to stop manufacturing those designs as of last November Blue would have done something to prepare their customer base for this. It just seems really implausible to me, which makes me think these JZ guys are blowhards.

I've had two Blue Balls, and they both said "Made in Latvia" on them.

There was a thread on this a few months ago at 3D audio.

That thread said that Blue was proceeding with legal action against violet. I have no idea who is right or wrong and i am not trying to take a position. I think we should hear both sides of the story before judging though.

By the way, the two stories that have been represented thus far are quite different but we should expect that.

http://www.3daudioinc.com/cgi-bin/ultimate...ic&f=1&t=001035

That's what they say, but that doesn't mean anything. They were not made in the same factory as the other Blue mics according to the factory in Latvia. Who knows?

I don't think that any of this is absurd really. Look how many companies use 797 in China? Look how many companies used Eminence, RCF, Phonic, and any OEM manufacturers. Few people design and build everything in-house anymore. So what you have are two guys that go to a factory that is making mics already, they do some marketing analysis, product development, have the deigner make some mics, have the factory produce them and bammo.

Then the people cannot reach an agreement on keeping the ball rolling, the two Blue guys look to manufacture elsewhere. This is not uncommon.

To say that Blue would have informed it's customer base is laughable for more than one reason. 1. China mics do not appeal to the suckers willing to pay too much money for the Blue mics anyway. Not saying that some of them aren't good, just not worth the cash.
2. No manufacturer is able to keep production runs consistant. Period. There is always a battle for these people to keep up on alternate suppliers, components, processes etc as legislation and supply and demand effects availability. Do a search about the EU, lead solder, etc, etc. This is why matched sets of anything cost more and sound closer than #1 of run one and #5,000 of run two.
3. Blue hasn't even told their dealers or distributors what is going on, because they are probably doing some big-time damage control.

I wonder if this accounts for the introduction of the Red Type B mic which essentially cannibalizes sales of all existing blue mics.

Do you really think that BLUE would run the legal risk associated with mislabeling the country of origin?

Read the thread again. This is what I was responding to: "The deal is, they cannot use the same designs that they were using. The mics that they build will have to be different enough, or the Violet/JZ boys can go after them."

I didn't say it was absurd that BLUE would outsource their design, I'm saying that it's absurd that BLUE would sign any agreement that forced them to stop selling the mics they have made their name on.


But you were saying that BLUE would have to change their designs, not just where they are manufactured.

I'm not saying that I would expect them to inform their customers about the change to Chinese manufacturing, I'm saying that they'd inform their customers if they had to change all their designs, and in essence abandon all the mics they made their name with.

Apparantly there are thousands of people that disagree with you.

Just to reiterate, I don't really doubt that JZ may have been the designer of these mics, only that BLUE would ever agree to stop making the Blueberry, Dragonfly, Baby Bottle, etc.

Negotiations break down all the time, hurting both parties. For example, whaddya think of the Stanley Cup race this year? It's entirely plausible that the range of what each party thought were acceptable terms did not mesh, likely w/ the manufacturer wanting more of the cut than they had gotten previously. In this scenario, BLUE says "good luck with that" and gets up with the table, and the factory says, "Ok, then, let's start a new brand".

I have no idea whatsoever of the reality of the situation, and those who know probably aren't saying anything near the whole of it.

Bear

This stuff is very interesting. Has BLUE possibly lost the right to manufacture and sell the majority of their product line? Any idea whether anyone from BLUE has commented anywhere on this? Anything from the dealer perspective, Warren?

Blue posted this message in its forums in December 2004 in response to a query about Violet mics:

As is common in our industry, when you do something well, everyone wants a piece of it. The microphone marketplace has been flooded with look-alike products that promise equal performance for less and never really deliver. As manufacturers, we believe that consumers will be “once bitten, twice shy.” This is one of our primary motivations for designing uniquely styled and superior performing products. Furthermore, we would strongly caution buyers from buying products of dubious design and origin.

We are aware of the activities of Violet Design. They are indeed offering knock-off products in violation of our trademark, trade dress and intellectual property rights. Our legal department is handling the situation.

Rest assured, Martins Saulespurens, Skipper Wise, and all of the key staff responsible for the development of Blue microphones throughout the years remain dedicated to Blue. All of the hard working people at Blue greatly appreciated the wonderful support we’ve received from consumers, critics, and dealers, and will continue to bring you new, exciting and innovative products.

Sincerely,

Blue Management

Hmmm. No direct allegation that Violet is using BLUE designs or technology, other than maybe the reference to "knock off". Is BLUE really just complaining about the look?

Another thing that makes me suspicious of JZ and Violet is that Blue is continuing full-steam ahead with promotion new product development. Would they do that, if the future of their entire past product line was questionable? I don't think so. They'd be more hesitant, IMO.

Maybe they're moving full steam ahead and bringing as many products to market as they can for the purpose of replacing thier past line once existing inventory runs out.

No hard feelings "Coming".

To me this is REEAALLY simple. IF Blue is legit, and they are what they say that they are WITHOUT the Violet people, IF I were Skipper, I would be out there doing some proud proclomation that:

1. Our mics were not manufacturered at the Violet plant, or yes they are/were but here is what happened...
2. We don't just own the trademark, we hold the patents on the designs and here they are...
3. We are the real designers, and here is proof...
4. Our mics are different because, or their mics are different because...
5. Violet wears their momma's combat boots...SOMETHING!

You would think that they would be out there talking about their technology, justifying the expense and the loyalty to Blue. But they cannot if some one else owns the machinery, the real know-how, the patents, etc, and you were using them under contract. (all this is IF Violt is telling the truth of course)

Those Violet and JZ mics didn't just get out on the market over night. It took time. They had been reviewed in other foreign trade rags before the news broke over hear. The Blue guys are supposedly really nice people, etc. Maybe, I don't know, don't care. But people can often times sign things that they do not understand, fail to negotiate properly, or get greedy. I do not know what the deal is. Blue is not talking either way about the designs, only the cosmetics.

As others have stated, the color should not be a factor. Can only Joe Meek be green? Only Blue make Blue (and all of the other colors), can Blue Reds be the only red mic? Blue is not close to Violet in my book. How different does one have to be. I don't think the laws read like that. I will have an attorny friend check this out. If you want to get technical, both use a shape similar to the Telefunken/Neumann stuff. There are only so many ways to make a mic.

But the new products don't replace the older ones. It's not like they're coming up with a new mid-line mic like the Baby Bottle or the Dragonfly or something. They're coming out with a few more of those low-priced ball shaped mics.

There may be legally strategic reasons they're not doing this. They do have a pending lawsuit with Violet, after all.

The quote that Steve posted was a little like this one, don't you think?

...yet.



Actually, I think they are. Isn't that what their whole new "Red" line is?

This is all just conjecture and guesswork on my part. I could be way off base, but sometimes there's a lot of interesting information that can be gathered by reading between the lines. I'd really like to hear something a bit more concrete from BLUE.

Maybe. It's not often that you want to fight a legal battle with press releases and public announcements, but if your business is in jeopardy and you are losing consumer confidence in your products and/or your financial viability, sometimes it's the best thing to do.

You may have a point there. Interesting...

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I think that whacky former Iraqi information minister must be running PR for Violet and JZ.

One of the puzzling ones to me is the claim that Juris Zarins designed and manufactured all the Blue mics.

I went to Google and some other search engines. You'd think if a guy had been doing all this fabulous design and manufacturing since the mid 1990s that you'd find his name someplace in connection with microphones going back to that time. But, you'll not find any reference to a person with this name other than an anthropologist whose parents happen to be from Latvia.

I was under the impression that Martins Saulespurens, Blue's R&D Chief, was behind those microphones.

There is another point here. You really can't attain legal protection for industrial design and you also can not patent a frequency response/mic that is essentially a copy of another mic (U47, AKGC12, etc.). If you could Blue would not exist. Blue themselves make copies of other mic sounds. Plus does blue really use any patentable technology in their mics? I don't know but mic design is generally not cutting edge stuff.

Apple is a lot bigger than blue and they have not been able to stop PC makers (big and small) from copying apple's industrial design.

Thus, Blue's legal standing may not be that strong even if they are in fact the legitimate designers of the mics, the same would apply for violet. After all, half the mics out there look and sound like something else and you don't see AKG, Neumann, etc, suing people.

It is interesting to note that Violet is slowing turning into JZ and changing their mic names. That suggests that blue won battles on their trademark.

Now the two get to fight over industrial design? I see no winner there.

Actually, way back Neumann sued Rode over grill design. Just grill design.

Bear

And Rode was mad at DPA and threatened retaliation becuase DPA has the same font as Rode. Whatever.

In america anyone can and often will sue for anything. That is not the point. The issue is did they win? When i say win i mean win.

Judges are judges and they will push for a "settlement." Likewise, a smart company might just say okay we'll change the grill design to make the plaintiff and litigation go away. That is not victory in a court case that is a settlement. Did they win a court case?

Well, most everything has been said:

All I can say is that if I can get near the BLUE quality for near the Chinese mic price, I'll be damn happy.

The plot thickens...

JZ Recording posted some pictures over at Gearslutz of what is supposedly the inside of some BLUE mic's:

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3...64&page=2&pp=30

The circuit boards on a Dragonfly say "designed by J. Zarinsh and F. Stanevich" on them. The capsule on the Mouse has a reference to "JZ" on it. Anybody with a BLUE mic care to crack it open and confirm that?

One thing I don't get - I thought the guy's name was "Zarins". Now it seems to be "Zarinsh". Seems a little suspect. Or maybe it's just a Latvian thing.

I've got a Dragonfly and access to a Baby Bottle so maybe I'll pop them open.

Those pictures were pretty convincing to me. Hmmmm...

The more I think about JZ the more I think there might be some "issues" there that could spoil any relationship (assuming there was one). As I said before, they want almost US retail for a direct to consumer transaction from Eastern Europe (not to mention the possible addition of custom fees). That's a totally unrealistic expectation.

And, then there's that son of Ziggy the Pinhead they got as their corporate face.

Yeah, the JZ thing looks DOA. I don't know if the mic appearance is subject to trademark or other IP action (ala Fender and Gibson headstocks), but most companies are too lazy to register their circuits or designs (or fear that it makes it too easy for competitors to build a better mousetrap) and rarely in this sort of product is there much originality to begin with. To make it short, I think the industrial design, not the circuitry, is likely where the sticking point is legally.

If it resolves well for JZ, they're not going to be able to command those prices if BLUE is still producing mics in Latvia. A perceived knockoff will just not command the same prices, at least not a knockoff of BLUE. Either they will sit on the market as the bastard cousin of BLUE, or they will do something new to differentiate themselves, either upmarket or down. If they wanted to really light into BLUE, they would target the Red mic by introducing lolipop capsules for a cheaply available small diaphragm condensor mic body, and undercut the price a little. (Oktava MC-012 would be nice if they're reading this.)

Bear

Yeah, I definitely don't think JZ will do well unless the cut their prices significantly.

Somebody killed the thread. It's gone forever.

I tried to take apart my Baby Bottle to look at the circuit board and couldn't do it. I did end up twisting the bottom a little, and now I'm kind of afraid I've hurt it. It works, but I'm going to call the BLUE guys and ask them what I should do.

See above post. Danger! Danger! They're not meant to be popped open. (At least not the Baby Bottle.)

Just don't tell them why you were doing it.

Seriously, I'd be very suprised if you could hurt the mic doing that. I'm sure it's fine.

I think this was just a master plan by JZ/Vilolet mics to get everyone to break their BLUE mics!

Here's statement from Blue's site. It's a little different than the one earlier posted on their forums.

***

Statement regarding Violet Designs and JZ Recording


As is common in our industry, when you do something well, everyone wants a piece of it. The microphone marketplace has been flooded with look-alike products that promise equal performance for less. As manufacturers, we believe that consumers will be “once bitten, twice shy.” This is one of our primary motivations for designing uniquely styled and superior performing products. Furthermore, we would strongly caution buyers from buying products of dubious design and origin.

We are aware of the activities of Violet Design and JZ Recording, which involve the unauthorized production and attempt to sell copies of several Blue products. They are indeed in violation of our trademark, trade dress and intellectual property rights. These parties have also attempted to mislead our distributors and customers about the origins and identity of our products. Our legal department is handling the situation.

As we at Blue Microphones celebrate our 10th anniversary, we maintain the same commitment to sonic quality, innovative design, and integrity that has won us the accolades of critics, retailers, and customers the world over.

The recent announcement of our distribution partnership with Telex Communications and Electro Voice Microphones is a sign of the quality and growth you should expect from Blue Microphones from now and into the future.


Sincerely,
Blue Management

Wow, it'd be crazy if the JZ people were just out an out lying.

I hope the truth surfaces someday.

I imagine the charge of lying is about the statements that BLUE's manufacture moved to China. Could be more, but it seems that is the statement BLUE has actually indicated is incorrect.

Bear

The official story from Blue as posted at 3d Audio, Inc., is that this is a disgruntled parts supplier who got his contract pulled. Jurin Zarins says that he designed and supplied certain models of Blue mics.

Here's the link at 3D Audio...

http://www.3daudioinc.com/cgi-bin/ultimate...ic&f=1&t=001266