Amazed and confused I am (yoda speak) at the sheer number of quality units now available...I get the impression that there is a whole generation of people that cannot fathom the notion that for many MANY years great records were made with only one brand/style of preamps (those that came in the console)....nowadays it seems like a variety of pres is the status quo, letting computers do the rest...

The question I pose to the pane is simple: is the current preamp craze based on sheer economics (ability to have many high end devices without the need or maintenance issues of a board) or is it more a matter of mixing/matching sonic characteristics to achieve a certain desired outcome?

I think its more the former...just looking at the economics of it all, its just cheaper to have 8 channels of Neve, 8 channels of API, and 8 channels of Quad8/Electrodyne than one console...but how do we factor in the "other stuff" consoles do (EQ, routing, summing, etc etc etc...have to get other equipment for that - other equipment that may or may not provide acceptable results...)

The debate of ITB vs OTB aside for the moment, I am curious as to 1) why we as an industry have made the preamp mania possible, and 2) how long will it last? Is it here to stay?

All thoughts welcome.

Well for me it was all about economics I mean I have a great little setup with all used gear from ebay I'm just a poor working man less 25k per year if you catch my drift my setup is pretty simple . I went to a commercial studio to get a concept of what they had which was very freaking pricey but resulted in stellar recordings but give me the basics understanding of how they had it set up which wasn't really as complicated as I always thought. In this particular studio they had a lot of outboard vintage gear which they explain were mic pre's and comp/limiter and other gear for initail tracking input. Then they had 4 Harddisk recorders to track to. after that they went thru a tube analog board to a 2" reel for mix down with PC edits and more external outboard gear post product mix add a little spice to the initial mix then it was ready for a ME who add his golden ear touch. Now I took this concept and here's what I could afford which I call me poor man studio remember it's all used gear bought thru eBay. First I bought a Alesis HD24XR then a used carvin 24 channel mixer then a Behringer micpre ADA8000 then a set of Alesis powered monitor one's then 2 SM57's 1 Akg D112 and 2 cheap Samson CO2 condensers 2 DBX 266XL comps 2 Alesis Midiverbs FX units 1 DBX 231 EQ, Behringer Utralflex, and Tascam CD-RW750 burner which uses standard CD blanks. Okay after I got my Alesis HD24XR I bought at Walmart a blowout sell on a Compac PC with a firewire card which the PC is a refurb. and pickup a Alesis Fireport this ids the only piece of gear I bought new because couldn't find any on eBay at the time then I pickup a Cooledit Pro 2.0 recording software installed both CEP2 and the Alesis Fireport software also when I bought the CEP2 the guy thru in some extra freebies software loops and native plugs also the only other thing I bought new was patch cables well all the cables except for one recording snake. as of now I'm very well satisfied with my poor mans studio the only thing I'm saving up for a A&H board and have the Behringer modded out to put in better chips and op amps for the pre's. I know my system is not commercial grade but I get by with pretty dam good results with what I got but final conclusion I got a great hobby studio due to poor economics of my income which in my part is my fault for not having a good education back ground use your brain not your back and hands as I regret what the teacher told me when I quit school but any how that another story but that's my set up for economics.

I've been around a few different scenarios of recording.

The most common scenario probably is the MCI desk into an MCI tape machine or MCI desk into a digital recorder of some type.

Then there's the big studio running an SSL, Neve or Amek desk into Pro Tools or RADAR.

Then there's the preamp and outboard into Pro Tools SE or something else (Paris, Cubase, Acid, or whatever).

I know some people think that you need lots of crayons to compose an interesting picture. Some people think that using a console gives you a sort of a unity of sound. I personally like a hybrid approach where I get some crayons yet I use the same channels on something such as the drum kit to give it unity.

The large console business is a thing of the past.

Let's talk about the preamp business. The boutique preamp business is predicated upon designs that require more expensive components. These designs, while requiring expensive components, do on the whole create value. For example, the A Designs Pacifica will turn your Audix i5 or your Shure SM57 into the best darn sounding versions of these mics you're likely to ever hear by making your dynamic mics sound their absolute best. You'll not get that with your M-Audio Audio Buddy ever when using a dynamic microphone.

(Anyhow, I got to go. More later...)

Well I think about the latest craze is taking the cheap mic pre's and having then hot rodded just as the guitar amp craze of the 60-70's were, sorry dude but I don't have access to the high end gear you have maybe I quit posting until you post about working mans gear like the M-audio that you posted sorry I'm a hobbyist not a pro like yourself.

Hang on, I'm getting to the cheap stuff. I said more later...


I agree that you probably got the latest craze nailed in the low end about getting something and getting it hot rodded. One of our advertisers, Black Lion Audio, is probably at the forefront of the hot rodding movement.

Here's more though... Let me ask you. Would you be interested in buying "boutique" low end?

My thought is that the next wave after the hot rod is boutique low end. I think that Naiant with its small omnis that sell for $20 each show the possibilities. What if someone came along and gave you a simple mic pre with two channels plus phantom power and no DI for $150. It'd probably sound as good as a Sytek which goes for $900 for four channels.

I think we're six to 12 months from boutique low end starting to really arrive. And, I'm talking about mic pres that sound pretty damn good with dynamics which is the trick.

Please note I'm typing this at a session. Right now, the mics in use are an MXL 991, Blue Dragonfly, EV RE20, Audio-Technica ATM25 and sE R1. I just want to point out that I use inexpensive gear everyday as evidenced by the 991 and ATM25. They sound wonderful too.

Okay here another thought correct me if I'm wrong ,most people get caught up in the must have micpre's which is all fine and dandy but after the initial tracking has been done this is where we will separate the men from the boys now you pros have a custom console to mix with, us hobbyist usually mix in the recording software (ITB) so in my opinion that's where people get screwed because they stay in the box and it's lifeless mix on the other hand you pros go through the high end custom console what ever brand it may be, which is going through another stage of high end mic pre's from the board it self adding more character to the intial tracking. Also I don't mix ITB box I've compared my mix with my low grade Carvin board to the ITB mix and even the low grade board smokes the lifeless ITB mix, the low grade board just adds so much to the mix everything seems to jump out compared to ITB. well enough of my venting.

With me it is the former. The problem is not everyone can afford a Manley, Avalon. I'm looking for at least a comparable 2 channel mic preamp, preferably 8 channels, without putting a mortgage on my house. My console preamps are weak to say the least. For mics, I get around it with a single Focusrite Penta which is pretty clean. I use it for Leads or VOs.

Trian, I have heard your work long before I knew it was your work...you mean to tell me that a midgrade Focusrite, when matched with the proper mic and proper manipulation, can trump the works of a raft of Manleys, Avalons, etc?

I have been slowly getting a headache over a lot of this stuff...Ozraves mentioned above (albeit a dated post) the era of the console is over....yet there are more consoles being made now than in the past 10 years...

API released a new model...Rupert himself is making them again...Goeff Daking and Paul Wolfe...as well as lower buck re-issues of Trident and Toft boards...Manley and Millenia will cutom build one for you, and if I could convince the former Quad8 crowd to re-introduce the Pacifica or Coronado console, the jig would be forever up....

Perhaps - just perhaps, the general public is not as thick headed and anxious to dump our consoles as we have been led to believe...don't like the pres: plug an external pre into the line input, and voila....

As great as ADesigns, API, Neve, whatever pres are, without a FAT EQ section and flexible routing, its just a preamp....

Some of what you may have heard was done in a large studio at one time (Neve) with good preamps, eq as well as superior mics (Neumann, Calrec, etc).

Some of my most recent, (including the gospel song and vocalist that I sent you to hear) were indeed done on less than impressive equipment. Including a lot on the jingle demo. Using my Mackie 32x8, C414 for vocals, and the Penta (Focusrite).

As you probably know, superior equipment doesn't necessarily translate to a superior end product. I have, and I'm sure you have as well, worked with a lot of low-end gear. My first console was a Tascam (Ughhhhh!) and a lot of low grade Audio Technica mics. With intelligent manipulation and recording techniques you can still turn out a half decent product. Like the old marine said "adapt and improvise." LOL!

I don't think record consoles will ever go out of practice. There are still some of us that like to have the hands on control.

Yes, sir....agreed 100%

Funny thing is that as of late, I've been using the board more for tracking and then as a static summing device....letting Scam-litude do all the automation....

In the end, no one walks down the street humming the gear list...they hum the song...anything that gets in the way of that (gear AND people using it) need to stand down.

Exactly!

What is Scam-litude? An automation plugin?

My console gets a lot of use in the initial recording end of things. Mostly in input routing to the 888. I may, in some instances, do minute board eq just so I don't have to worry about it in the sdII file. Of course output routing to the source (talent) and all that is still in play. But in the end, PT is the automation used (Level, effects, etc.). The board is simply a 2 channel monitor.

Scam-litude is what I call Samplitude...that's a whole nuther thread....

Ah, gotcha!

I think there's a current trend (craze?) to move towards multi flavored preamps for specific tasks. Like your standard Neve, API recommendations on all your close mic'd drums with something either cleaner, like Mil-Media, Crane Song etc on the OH's. Or, go for a squishy, softer tubey sound on the OH's - one of the apps my old TL Audio generic 2ch micpre/DI seems to do well at. I actually like adding the different flavour on the OH's, or in cases with vocals, I like to track the LD Voc thru something immediate and upfront if I can (mic comes into play here) and then use a more open preamp for the BGV's. Recently for eg, I have a project where I'm doing most of the guys LD Voc's thru an SM7b, and then will have him sing his own BGV's into the 414ULS or U87i. When it comes time to mix, it's way way easier to place the BGV's than if I had done them with the same chain as the LD Vocal.

But you know, at the end of the day, we've all gushed over countless classics that were tracked and mixed via the same console, so it all becomes relative in a hurry. I'll tell ya, I've been recently REALLY diggin THESE guys. Just love the tones as much as the material.It's got it all IMHO and all I'd personally like for anything I do. What was this recorded thru? Just ONE Daking 1112 console. No outboard pre's and there's nothing here that I couldn't personally live with. In fact, this stuff is what lead to me ordering a Daking IV to handle some of our colour needs, in that we only have preamps that would be deemed to be "clean" at this time, ie Avalon, Millennia and Crane Song. But this said, I'd gladly track a whole CD thru a couple of Spiders too

i am guilty, but still, i concede, it is just much easier with one style pre, or a great console.

P.S. i will add these guys to my buddy list: )~